Marty T - Four Types Concept - BD - GD - GR - BR

From: Marty_Trujillo [mailto:]
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 7:22 AM
To: joe@joereger.com
Subject: lets talk politics


Hey Joe,

So I've been thinking about politics/good vs. evil a lot lately.

Here's what I've come up with so far...

In general there are 4 types of political people.

1. Good Democrat
2. Evil Democrat
3. Good Republican
4. Evil Republican

The two types that have had my interest as of late is the comparison between
Good Democrats and Good Republicans. I have had the pleasure of meeting
many very good Republicans lately. As a recovering democrat the thing that
has me confused is how Good Repubs can even exist.

After major thought and effort I have come to the conclusion that the main
difference is between a GD and a GR is faith in humans. I think most GRs
believe that people will help other people in a bind. Basically the
government doesn't need to help people in need because if a family finds
itself in trouble their friends, family and neighbors will step up to help.
No GR would ever want any family suffering.

I think most GD don't believe anyone would help people in trouble. In my
personal experience when most families gets into trouble no one will help
them, their friends and family typically blame them for their circumstances
(bad decisions). I see cars broken down all of the time and I don't pull
over to help and I've noticed that most people don't pull over to help. I
tend to think since no one will pull over to help that the police
(government) should help them.

I think Evil Republicans see people in trouble as potential competition in
life and want to keep them down.

I think Evil Democrats think that people are idiots and that people
shouldn't make decisions for themselves.

Any thoughts?

Marty

PS I am currently swaying away from Democrat, to more of a neutral stance.
In general, I'm starting to come to the conclusion that all four views (GD,
GR, ER, & ED) are correct and that maybe the best thing to do is react to
the current environment, as opposed to trying to change it.

Hey Marty!

I think your four types do a damn good job of breaking it down. Kudos!

There is no solid platform on either side. I used to believe that the
Repubs were for smaller government and trust in people. But their religious
crap and women's rights crap doesn't bear this ideal out. I used to believe
that the Dems believed in humanity. But their policies, as you note,
indicate a complete lack of trust that people will do the right thing.

I tend towards libertarianism where the government's job is to protect the
borders and defend my right to live my life. Laws are not designed to
define morality, but to prevent one person from inhibiting another person's
freedom. You're free to do what you want until you have an affect on
another person, at which point the type of effect you've had is fair game
for legislation... and often no legislation should result.

You paint two axes, one for Good/Evil and one for Repub/Dem. Maybe it can
also be seen as a spectrum:
BD -> GD - GR <- ER

The moderates are more "good" in your system and open to discussion,
believing in people, etc. The extremists are more "bad".

Actually, my statement isn't accurate. I think that there are many extreme
leaders at the edges of the spectrum who are good people and who are pushing
ideas that could work. It's the blind followers who get caught up in the
dogma... the party line... that I'd call evil. Personally, I don't care
what your view is... I'll respect it as long as it's yours. But the moment
I sense that you're just spewing some party line without knowing the
foundation of your argument, I'll try to thrash you.

I've long felt that there's a realignment that needs to happen in the two
major political parties. Each has twisted and whored itself out over the
course of time to the point where their foundation... their platform... is
unrecognizable. You have to start with a simple core set of beliefs and
then let those be interpreted to daily life issues like abortion, free
speech, wars on terrorism, etc. Right now neither party has a solid core,
despite thousands of pages of platform documents that you can download from
their web sites.

During the last election I found it terribly difficult to conclude that I
was a republican or democrat. But given the situation of our country I
found it incredibly easy to figure out who to vote for. At an election you
choose one person who you think will serve the country for four years. This
doesn't mean you have to like that person or even believe much in their
beliefs. In business we sometimes bring in heartless consultants to cut
costs and fire a bunch of people. We hate them, but they serve the company
in the end. This is the notion that you mention of reacting to the
environment at a particular time.

Lots to discuss and clearly we can't solve it all here. Thanks for putting
forth your Four Types concept. I like it!

Joe

From: Marty_Trujillo[mailto:]
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 5:48 PM
To: joe@joereger.com
Subject: RE: lets talk politics


Thanks Joe. I guess I am starting to think that it's not really about what party a person is in, but more about how they feel about their fellow humans.

It's interesting that you brought up:

"But the moment I sense that you're just spewing some party line without knowing the foundation of your argument, I'll try to thrash you."

I've been thinking a lot about the evolution of humans. I think most people believe that humans will evolve in a Harry Potter/X-men sort of way. That is that individual humans will through some means become genetically superior (magic, super powers, super intelligence...) and that over time only the strongest will survive.

I am starting to think that this individual improvement method is probably not the way we humans are evolving. This whole "Rush is Right" movement is starting to make me think we are evolving into a "hive mentality", where people like Rush are like the "Queen Bee's" and the "Ditto Heads" are like the mindless drones checking in every 24 hours to find out exactly what they should think (I am picking on the Rush crowd because I live in Atlanta, if I lived in Portland I am sure there would be some democratic group to pick on). I think what we are seeing is the beginnings of a new type of human evolution where we get our general way of thinking from some sort of centralized location and then we use our massive brains to find clever ways to implement our centralized leaders "talking points".

As you know a relatively small percentage of people working in concert could easily overwhelm an unorganized population. It's impossible for me as an individual to process every issue facing me, there are just too many unknown factors and quite honestly, it would be much more efficient to turn on the radio and find out what Carl Rove's staff has come up with in their talking points.

Sure the repubs seem to want to create a world empire and make all US citizens corporate slaves, but at the same time the dems seem to want to remove the concept of ownership and make all property subject to seizure based on the whims of the government. And the idea of 300,000,000 people living together with a government that focuses only on keeping the bad guys out and the roads paved seems like a sure recipe for allowing a single entity (individual, corporation, church, family...) with some ambition and a little luck cornering some important market (fuel, food, information...) and enslaving us.

At this time I think the Repubs and Dems are pushing us in the same directions. I think the Repubs are unknowingly setting us up for some sort of corporate led Borg/Hive society where we spend our days ensuring the goals and desires of our corporation are met. I think the Dems are unknowingly setting us up for some sort of government Borg/Hive led society.

Think about it, big chain restaurants provide REALLY, REALLY BAD service, yet we keep buying food from them. We line up in our SUVs and Minivans and order our "food" and we (the customers) are totally irrelevant to them the (corporate) employees. The TV tells us to buy from the national chain and we do it. We do it because we know the food will be OK. Sure we could pay a couple of dollars more to buy food from some mom and pop establishment, and sometimes mom and pop will greatly exceed the big chain and sometimes they will totally suck, but we opt for guaranteed mediocrity. We're like that ancient bumble bee that could have looked for some other kind of food to feed itself, but opted for the food the hive produces because it was OK and now 1000s of generations later that bumble bee can't eat anywhere else.

The ditto heads could think for themselves, but they choose to let Rush/Rove think for them because it's easier. It's a little depressing/but exciting at the same time, just think of what ants and bees are able to accomplish with their tiny little brains and tiny little bodies. If we do evolve as I think we will just imagine the amazing things we will accomplish...

Oh well, thanks again for the compliment.

Marty

PS I hope you don't think this rant has anything to do with Melissa's Store, the store is rocking and rolling right now. I think the majority of people hate the way humans are evolving (but by the time they wake up it will be too late) and our store is kind of a throw back that many people find appealing.

Hi Marty!

Oh yeah... you should check out the book The Tipping Point. It speaks to this notion of influencers in society and how a handful of people can have a massive effect. Things take off as epidemics, according to the book.

One thing in the book is the scientifically-established notion that people can form strong bonds with 150 other people. Beyond that our tools degrade. We're now connected through instant messenger, email, cell phone and blog to many more than that. Not to millions, but each of us is connected to thousands. So this affects our depth of relationship. I think it overwhelms us. So maybe, for biological reasons, we dive into the Borg/Hive mindset because we can't fathom thoughtful interaction with thousands of people.

Maybe this is a cop out argument on my part. I don't think you should take on the Borg/Hive mindset. But maybe I'm describing some of what is happening.

Throughout all of humanity and history on the Earth humans haven't been so connected. What some dude did in Central Asia had nothing to do what you did in the Americas. But now we're all interconnected. And with the coming squish... the point where the Earth can't support all of us... the Xxxt is about to hit the fan. Maybe in a century. Maybe two. But relatively soon.

So society is evolving. People like you are realizing that we're really smart individually but really dumb as a group. It'll take time to change as a group. There's just so much momentum. I think I've said it before. It'll take a few massive global contractions of population (over tens of thousands of years) before people wise up and change core beliefs about their place on the planet.

Again, much more to discuss.

Joe